three thirty am in moscow these are your r g headlines ninety four people now confirmed killed in friday attacks in norway as the details of the massacre and the man charged with the crimes emerge. anders behring breivik a thirty two year old norwegian arrested earlier has confessed to both the shooting out into ireland and the bombing in central oslo he suspected of links to a far right organization and most strongly opposed to immigration and. as greece's credit ratings are threatened with being downgraded and washington

takes a step toward defaulting on its national that analysts say it's the man on the street will eventually have to pay for the government's excessive spending power t.j. just public opinion on both sides of the of let the spotlight coming up next this time al good of speaks with alexis crow from the royal institute of international affairs to find out whether the revolutions in north africa will lead to greater security threats in the future stay with us. solution disciplinary punishment. should. work. could the penitentiary system transform a criminal into a log bodied citizen and. present life behind bars on r g.

three. yellow welcome to spotlight the interview show on r t i melbourne all vents name i guess in the studio is alex is proud. last year and the united states were discussing the new start treaty they are giving whether or not it will protect your approach potential building in this but very soon a different threat than the revolutions and warfare spread throughout north africa and the middle east toppling regimes and bringing instability to the region so what are the biggest threats to your feeling global security for they care is a next three inserts the security as there while it is the chief of them stashed with first alex this crowd. last year russia and the united states strengthen ties by signing the new stock nuclear disarmament treaty each one russia

needs relations and made things clear up along with the european missile defense program but things are still where they started because the alliance wants interceptor me silenced in eastern europe and russia wants guarantees they won't threaten its security the two parties also disagree with the current middle east in a shoes like the syrian i'm going to be on the ball. game. hello exist thank you very much for coming in three shows a pleasure to have been here first of all before we start talking about war and missiles and all those things let's talk about the from the more lively things like . a flag which was really loud look this holiday season what is it for you would you would you conclude to be in an. international international interest full scale because if the whole world felt was certainly i mean it's definitely a transatlantic affair because of course rupert murdoch's interest in the wall

street journal ties it to the north atlantic business community as well and and attention is drawn toward britain naturally because these sort of scandals of corruption and police chiefs resigning aren't supposed to happen in the old western countries in these are safer things of other countries but it's happening right in london it's happening right in boston and star as we speak. the project killing themselves. there it's you know it's it's an interesting affair and i think also and at the start it wasn't it wasn't very clear how much this would affect cameron but i think it might affect him greatly i think he he behaved in such a way which was which was fantastic in that he was very candid in the way he responded in a way wasn't guilty of anything but the wave which he was slow. to punish cause and for what had happened i think is going to hurt him in the long run they

called people called new a couple of colleagues from different russian. sources considering me that spirit and think should be really changed the law should be will change the law regulating the work of the press and the relationship between the press and the society and rancid no a new reason i think it's a matter of implementation because people when people are breaking the law was the use of changing a lot of or maybe i'm not right because people of the. the moment they want to change the law well no i mean i think it's also looking at the way in which the law protects the people in this if you follow the super injunctions scandals as well in the u.k. and of course we had julian assange a year ago. i think the way in which the relationship between the media and technology and people is evolving in such a rapid pace but this is a scandal of all the i mean this is you could write this in a book could be fiction it could be a television show. or films this is something i know because there was the bond

film in which there was. the villain was loosely based on reprint murdoch i believe so i think the relationship is changing but i don't think we should create new laws or disband all one simply because they're broken. as you quoted the film does that mean we needed their will though person to deal with them going to the environment scenes. those are some i would like. ok well. do you think that this me seriously harm. as a business or will it maybe give more publicity to speakers. well i mean certainly not the news of the world of course that one would be selling any time soon but i think. something like the wall street journal's games and. in a way businessmen my group of murdoch are brilliant until they come back house of

cards comes falling down like it did with for example ken lay and enron but that's not a scandal of that kind of proportions i don't think trickling down it's more of a question of his legitimacy so from here on out he's probably going to be completely inhibited in terms of pursuing business. it is harming the reputation of the press new green absolutely. and general journalism. but i mean i don't think papers for example like the financial times will suffer. hopefully not but now let's switch to two to two to world peace in the middle east leaders world is changing and has changes started there with an established were non fly zone over libya and now to go into war offensive operations in the region but the war in libya in its current form is not it was not sanctioned by the united

nations doesn't mean that what the nato is doing in libya is illegitimate you know i mean i would say that apart from the french dropping weapons. by and large needs who is fighting with its hands tied behind its back it's it's almost crippled in its execution of hostilities there or just underneath hostilities in accordance with the u.s. congress and in order to fight within that remit i believe that it's not fighting as effectively as of course continue so i do think that it's fighting within the u.n. security council along those lines apart from funding weapons. resolution loan t. seventy three of the united nations security council. allowed nato to secure this no fly zone to stop present they are free from slaughtering his own people work.

though the attempts to assassinate who will condemn me and and. a number of them and later seems to be obsessed with that idea doesn't mean that the real real idea behind the campaign is regime change in the country well if you go back to from the nineteenth of march i'm words there's a real there's a great word in english which is backsliding there was a real backsliding and skidding into what began as upholding un resolution one thousand seventy three and really trying to protect civilians in the slaughter of civilians. for example you heard b.h.l. denial of the levy and france really pushing this we've got to see the civilians much in a sort of recalling rwanda and what happened in kosovo in bosnia. and so that was the real the real tension pushed forward the moment and then you backslide into world how are you going to do that do you need to remove gadhafi

from power and in a sense you do so there was a real reticence to use the words regime change and change and then all of a sudden it starts sliding back into this well we don't seek regime change poker after you must go. and so now the real question is how do you move a man from power. do you put him in asylum that one of the things is putting him in asylum but within libya but i don't really necessarily know how that's going to work either will i don't think it will work i don't think it is khadafi isn't going to do is get out if you do believe because he himself seems pretty confidently that he was he did look worried this couple of weeks but now he seems confident knows he's got staying power and the pressure. has got staying power so long. as nato cannot fight a war effectively which it cannot do. because it's fighting within the bounds of

the un security council resolution it's not going to really be able to step up its efforts unless it goes back to the security council and another resolution is passed which one wonders the viability of that russia has refused to recognize the libyan rebels as the only legitimate authority in the country spotlight the media reports. when nato started its military operation in libya four months ago thank you west promised not to take sides last week washington changed its mind at an international conference in this town it recognized libya's transitional national council as the country's government until an interim authority isn't ways united states will recognize the t.n.c. as the legitimate governing authority for libya and we will deal with it on that basis in contrast the united states used to take up the regime as no longer having with authority in libya more than thirty nations for would suit now with diplomatic

recognition the u.s. will officially be able to fund these don't position it can use some of the thirty billion used dollars of the regime assets frozen in american banks russia has condemned in their open decision to explore those behind the recognition are fully siding with one political force in the libyan civil war this again just means that those who took this decision are pursuing a policy of isolation in this case they actually should have triple the storage of . russia ain't going to build tripoli and benghazi urging both sides to get to run the negotiation table meanwhile we need a secretary general pulled in the line says numbers to certainly aircraft to deliver strikes from libyan targets so far two months of need involvement have not helped to break the deadlock in this civil war. well

you mentioned there are feasibility to resist and it certainly has been underestimated the need for what was the reason for this and less traditional as you say torie thought i think it's to begin with again you're fighting as a swordsman with one hand tied behind your back because regime change wasn't mentioned to begin with if you look at the international community in the wider international community sometimes if you look at nader's engagement with other countries for example afghanistan. and iraq it's given me to a bad name it's means that the u.k. and the u.s. are coming to see regime change sensually and so because of that bad name to begin with france and britain and the us did not you explicitly did not use the words regime change and of course there are several air power theories one of whom is called eliot cohen from america and he said that the use of air power exclusive air

power to carry out a political solution is equivalent to modern courtship. immediate satisfaction without little guarantees or commitments and so in that sense is a policy of what robert pape calls the capitation decapitation was it literally taking the head off of a regime does little to change anything political the ground as we've so clearly seen in afghanistan with the removal of the taliban and so we've seen with the removal of saddam hussein so it's not a policy that works regime change. however i would say that therefore it wasn't on the cards to begin with. in that very overt sense but of course it had to be because if you're thinking of stopping him killing his citizens you obviously have to stop him. from being in power in some sense says alex this crowd expert on this national security out there while in a speech it all international affairs correspondent will be back shortly after we take a break so stay with. good players. the

bird. wealthy british soil the sun rolls on the spot on the right in front of the. markets why not scandal. find out what's really happening to the global economy in these kinds of reports on. the exit of nature and discoveries. communicate with the wild and. test yourself and become free and. see what nature can give you on on.

twenty years ago the largest country on the surface of the. sea. one hundred million kilometers each began a journey. where did it take. place. the bird. flu. welcome back to the spotlight than just through my guest in the studio today is alex's crow an expert in international security at the royal institute of international affairs well we've been talking about adultery and there will be talk of trepidation and you compare the two to saws really fighting with one hand behind the tide to back but many experts say even. even if we try

to evaluate the operations that have been carried out and it was a military fiasco do you do you agree without the will truly the military did a lousy really lousy german underground i think this is symptomatic of the west's attention deficit disorder we might say it looks it looks at a problem area it looks at an issue it is size it wants to solve it and then it deliberates too quickly and hard to solve it so was too little too late and this is of course what a lot of people said about obama's decision to step up to present afghanistan that it took him far too long to deliberate over this decision so i would agree i would say that in libya either we should have gone in at all. we should have done something like this which of course is not the nature of coalition fighting i'm reminded of napoleon comments when he said next time i fight more it may be against the coalition. but this new military solution in libya in the region in general.

i do believe in the interest of no i think this is the greatest single greatest problem of modern conflict. anywhere the stone anywhere and this is the problem is does need to have the military capacity to wage coalition warfare yes it does granted if you have partners such as germany on board you know the danes are actually quite on board so it doesn't have the capacity yes it does of course has political infighting. things called national. and and problems of material however the real question is political will and does it have the political will to sustain operations on the ground and afghanistan in the last decade has proven no we don't have a composite there really is no consensus because generally you mention italy the learn exactly enthusiastic about all of this but. the least well you

think a compromise between britain and france is the main point isn't really you know at this point i think the architects of the franco british defense treaty are very glad to see that france and britain have agreed and continued to agree and really rallied round in europe and knocking on other leaders towards an across the globe as it got lower visit. no i would say marriage would love how you think french in general i mean this specifically here is renewed passion in the movement of this specific issue of one hundred million and one specifically ok now. tell strikes are not working so do you think that nato. really invasion or will will need to be going forward for a resolution of the security goals and before skill information you know i have to say what you will have what you have had since the start. was equivalent of what

kennedy sense special advisers on the ground in vietnam when you have special forces on the ground i think increasingly in modern conflict you will see special forces operating on the ground in a small sort of shadow capacity and i think you'll continue to see that but not a ground invasion proved reserves of russia. moscow will not support a resolution against syria's bashar regime does it undermine common approach towards the problem. well this these visas turn and they tend to do so in russia would china. be to something within the security council of course it detracts from the world but i think it seems to me that at the moment any kind of potential military solution all or any kind of resolution against syria wouldn't happen at the moment i met as as i understand it and i'm not an expert on the middle east per se but as i understand it partial side is is is making efforts to

negotiate with opposition in enterprise and continues to do that i think it will buy him time visibly the security council ok now there is a risk experts say that the assistance given to the rebels. to the so-called trans national transitional national committee will go to al qaida to the al qaeda elements that are present within the ranks of this can really. do you think there are grounds for research for such expectation of law but if you make a connection to al qaeda you know it's quite a long connection to me i don't even think you need to make up for of a connection simply because do we really know who the benghazi rebels are and i think this is a big question did we really know with images getting in were when the c.a.a. funded them back into the war in afghanistan i mean this this is the real question

is not necessarily links to al qaeda old to. q.a.m. al qaeda and in some it's not grab but even to any other group flooding flooding. a civil war essentially or an area prone to civil war with weapons is not necessarily an inviolable promising you have no idea where those weapons wind up or who those people will be eventually the question of what happens to countries like a likely be after the war is over so if we just leave. if we just start fighting alerts it it will turn them into sort of an afghanistan local law lawless and. like a nice place for all those clowns in ren and groupings and and and. who. try to club a leader who's coming to power but if we want to to establish a sustainable peace in the country it's a long and costly for do you think that the europeans will be ready to go for it in

times of crisis economic difficulties and i don't think the west has the political will or the attention span to see that out i think the west is losing its attention span shorter and shorter kids focused on domestic political consolidation look at what's going on within europe within the euro delaying the inevitable we're going to greece and now are to go to new debt ceilings in italy look at the congressional battles in washington as you can see that the attention span just snaps so i don't think. a lasting peace will be stabilized and imposed by the european union by need or by the u.s. . and the other thing. if. people within the know if they will decide to go for peace to to work for a for for a treaty between khadafi and the rebels will be all that many years like like south

africa for example or russia step in and try to to to to set up with a grievance because this would this would this screwed the previous problems which was. how i think eventually i would think but i believe that that makes sense i know that. president zuma just got into sort of deep browed with cameron in south africa over this matter and i as i understand you century great chess experts to negotiate a libya so i mean i think that that is what makes sense in terms of bringing in other members of the international community in their experiences of resolving conflicts. what do you think. libya's war means for the future of may to be the e.u. common defense project does it need rethinking its economy in the. rethinking process of the moment a sign of things to come i think increasingly we will see coalitions of the willing

we saw in iraq. like we saw a lot we're seeing in libya. i think what will happen within nato is you will see these coalitions of the willing group around so it's an issue areas so for example with cyber defense and with climate change or with nuclear defense and in terms of i think it's ringing the death toll the interventionism i think the imposing values at the point of a gun hopefully is a policy which is being rid of the west as we speak in libya at the moment it's highly ineffective as we as we discussed. it seems. russia's proposal to share the responsibility for europe's missile defense according to the sexual principle is that a sign of the persisting distrust in europe towards the russian. i think that the problem within europe itself is that you've got so many different

gazes towards russia there's a german gaze and there's a british and there's a french gaze and there's an italian gaze and very very very seldomly do all of these gazes look you know in the same direction and so i think this will just be symptomatic of european relations with moscow but i say i mean as i see it i think that the european union does far better in negotiating with russia as a collective entity than nato does but i think things initiatives like the native russia council are very valuable and even if they disintegrate at some point it's important even if they're sort of suspended they don't disintegrate so i think it's important to keep them in place and you know the role of the united states it seems that for the first time in decades the u.s. is not playing leading role in the little military operation doesn't that put the idea of so dependent european defense ports into the engine and absolutely

absolutely and i think this is this is again indicative of a shift of of washington's gaze toward the east if you look to what secretary of defense bob gates one of his last sort of two wars he talked about the pacific and the importance of the pacific and the way in which washington's attention will be much more focused on its effect looking at newer global strategic partners in a way that france germany britain might not be the default strategic ally and i think that is that is indicative of things come thank you thank you very much and just reminding the point you're famous to get a great cause alex this crowd the next group of international security at the institute of international affairs and they're sifting out the model of the spotlight will be back with more comments on what's going on in the ship until then they want to take. it.

in india on season one.